Joshua Kahn is the winner of the first 2008 SourceCon Sourcing Challenge. Two more Sourcing Challenges will take place in the months ahead. Josh, and the winners of the next two Sourcing Challenges this year will face off with Michael Notaro in the 2008 GrandMaster Sourcing Challenge. The GrandMaster event will be part of the SourceCon Global Sourcing Conference planned to be held August 17-19 this year in Atlanta.
Find out how he did it here.
Josh is a Sr. Pipeline Generation Expert at Accenture HR Services on-site at Best Buy Company in Richfield, MN. His role involves the development of sourcing strategies and the management, evaluation and selection of online resources for sourcing and recruiting purposes.
Joshua Kahn
Sr. Pipeline Generation Expert
Accenture HR Services
On-Site at Best Buy Company
Years of recruiting experience: 6
Types of recruiting: CSR to VP
Certifications, Associations: AIRS Certified CIR, ACIR, Co-Founder of Minnesota Recruiters Network
Interview with Josh Kahn
Josh, before we get started, please tell us what you do in your current position at Best Buy.
I work as a part of Accenture’s North American Talent Center there. Technically I am on the sourcing team, which we refer to as Pipeline Generation Experts. I am responsible for advising our clients on technologies, techniques and approaches for both attracting and finding talent. This means working on issues related to employment branding, and really presenting a point of view on it that encompasses which vendors, technologies, and approaches to use or avoid. Increasingly this involves advising on the Web 2.0 arena and recruiting. I also work a lot with the sourcers across Accenture’s extended family of sourcing professionals. My role there is really to facilitate knowledge sharing and best practices so we can all learn from each other.
What was your first recruiting job?
Well, my first recruiting job in name was with Robert Half. You can’t throw a rock in the air without finding a recruiter who has been with them at some point. However, I think I learned most of my applicable skills when I worked in Traditional Chinese Medicine. I was a board licensed Acupuncturist for a few years after getting my degree in Oriental Medicine. I ran an herbal pharmacy and saw patients for about 3 years. I was also speaking at local medical schools to students and established doctors. Imagine standing in front of a group of surgeons trying to explain this “voodoo” medicine based on a completely different, although valid, world view. It’s a bit like trying to convince someone working in Florida, to come work in the tundra of Minneapolis. Takes a bit of selling and speaking the language of the listener. So any recruiting chops I may have really took root back then.
What do you like most about your recruiting work?
The detective work of being a sourcer, and the opportunity to be creative in solving problems. I also am a bit of a geek when it comes to technology, social networks and such. The other thing is getting exposure to lots of smart people across the clients Accenture works with and my colleagues within the North American Talent Center. Being able to network with executives to get an idea put into practice is incredibly satisfying for me and I feel exceedingly lucky that the companies I work with are amenable to new ideas.
Tell us something you don’t like or that you would immediately change about your job/the recruiting profession.
Generally speaking, most companies view recruiting/staffing as a cost center, not a profit center. I understand why it’s that way, but I think its short-sighted. The reality for any company is their Brand is the same as their employment brand. For example, at any company with a well recognized consumer brand, everyone they hire has already some concept in their head about what that company’s brand is and what it means to them. Conversely, they’ll have huge numbers of people applying every day, month and year. That’s an opportunity for that company to have an impact on their consumer brand via the ‘candidate’ or employment brand. I guess my point is no initiative, strategy, or profit making product has ever been created and implemented without people, therefore they are a part of the profit center. Lots of companies have “people” in their mission statement, but when it comes to doling out budgets, head count toward hiring, and involving staffing in strategic discussions I’ll bet “people” i.e. staffing and recruiting either aren’t in the room, or are the last to know. This is why so many career websites are lame. Its not because it’s hard to do, its because most companies don’t see the true importance of the candidate experience the same way they view the importance of their customer experience. This is not unique to any one company. I think its part of the way business has been done for years.
What do you think is the greatest challenge facing recruiters today?
I’ll answer for corporate recruiters. First, see answer number 4 for the ‘big picture’ response. Day to day it’s two things, no mystery to most. First is overwhelming administrivia. There are lots of demands on a recruiter that are rooted in following rules and regulations. Newer ATS technology has helped with some of it, but has added a layer of complexity that wasn’t there before. It’s to the point where the true full cycle corporate recruiter is a dying breed. Also, with the newer technologies and software products it’s easier than ever to find new ways of connecting with a pool of candidates. There are a lot of shiny toys out there, but shiny and new doesn’t always equal effective or useful. The big question is “which is most appropriate for what I need to do right now?”
In your view, what skills and attributes make for a great recruiter?
The ability to listen is number one. I mean listen in the sense of pay attention to detail, tone, nuance, and cues from the people you interact with be they candidates or hiring authorities. I also include under ‘listening’ paying attention to information you are looking at, websites, social networks etc., as well as listening to market trends. A close second to that is the ability to pick the important elements out of the information you get. In interpersonal interactions, as well as in group scenarios, or presentations. To me listening is the better part of communication; every individual speaks a slightly different language. The more you recognize that and learn how to speak the language of the person you’re speaking to right now, the better your connection will be, and the more likely that connection will bear fruit.
Are there one or two things any recruiter could do to become better?
Number one is making sure you can be found. If you are a recruiter and people can’t find you easily that doesn’t add up. I’m sure some people are afraid of the flow of candidates emailing or getting inundated with irrelevant requests, but I think that’s bogus. It’s possible to use technology to help manage that in a way that not only helps you but your peers in recruiting as well. I would also suggest polishing ye olde conversation skills for networking. Every connection is either a prospect or a connection to a prospect/connection, and so on. If managed right you can get a ton of juice from just talking to people.
What books, blogs, educational and training resources do you recommend to recruiters?
Books: Malcolm Gladwell has some good stuff, Seth Godin too, for fiction local boy Vince Flynn is a fave.
Blogs: The usual suspects are good, Shally Steckerl, Jim Stroud, Joel Cheesman, Glen Gutmacher. One new guy to watch is Michael Notaro. He’s been winning all the sourcing contests lately and has some crazy smart ideas. Some good ‘expand your mind’ blogs are Guy Kawasaki’s ‘How to Save the World’, and psfk.com. The last one has lots of articles on branding, marketing, and interesting or creative uses for social apps.
Education/Training: I would say that while there are some worthwhile training programs out there, you can learn a tremendous amount for free. Any and everyone in recruiting should have an RSS reader and use it. If you’re technically challenged, go to Google, set up a free personal account, and use the Google Reader. Subscribe to as many recruiting, sourcing, marketing, or whatever, related blogs that you like. It will save you time, and keep you informed on the state of your industry. You will also learn more than you ever thought possible all for free.
How has the proliferation of Web 2.O (social networking/media) affected your job and/or recruiting efforts?
Immensely. Understanding the dynamics of why Facebook and others are so popular is key to understanding the most appropriate use for them for recruiting purposes. We are using Facebook right now in particular to test some things. The great thing about most social applications is they are so lightweight that even non-developer types like me can figure out how to use them, and in some cases how to create recruiting tools, campaigns, or sites with them. It’s an immensely interesting area for me personally because it’s so tough to pre-engineer these things. You just do it, fail fast, learn, and iterate. This is a much different approach than traditional approaches to marketing or creating a website or other large scale tech project. The other great thing about the new social environment on the web is it’s cheap if not free.
Any predictions for which Social Networking sites factor most importantly in the long haul?
It’s getting to a point now where SNF, Social Network Fatigue, is becoming a real phenomenon. Personally, I have profiles in roughly 15 different social networks both public and private within Accenture and Best Buy. This is too much to manage to any real useful end, even for someone like me who has it as a part of their job. So, I think a natural result will be some kind of aggregation across networks. Some will go away, consolidate perhaps, but I think there will be other creative solutions, that will come out of this ‘SNF’ problem. The solutions that will work will allow a ‘post once, distribute to all’ kind of functionality. So I can put something on my blog or whatever my “home” network is, and that same content will go to my Facebook profile, my LinkedIn page, my MySpace page, or wherever I chose to connect it to, automatically. The first real solution toward that end, and a brilliant one at that is Google’s Open Social. I haven’t seen anyone take real advantage of it yet from a recruiting perspective, but someone will soon I think. Facebook and Plaxo also have some aggregating functionality already, but I haven’t seen the killer app in this area yet.
What impact will Social Networking have on the future of recruiting?
On the “attract” side i.e. employment branding, it will be, and already is huge. On the “find” side, i.e. sourcing or finding candidates it is already and will become more so a part of the norm, especially as time goes on and Net Gen’ers or Millennials come of age. I think you’ll start to see career websites replaced with social networks. You’ll see a lot of mistakes and bad applications of the technology, as well as lots of interesting new ideas that challenge, and blow up the old boundaries we are all used to around what an employee is and how work gets done. Don’t get me wrong, social networks aren’t the end all be all when it comes to recruiting. If you don’t have the basics right, don’t bother with social networks at all. But if you do have the basics of sourcing and networking old school (i.e. using the phone) figured out, then if used appropriately, social applications can definitely be a powerful tool.
What impact will the impending labor shortage have on recruiting in the next decade?
For companies it’s going to require a more creative approach to getting work done. Companies will have to figure out how to accomplish their goals with less head count. This means figuring out crowd sourcing or getting ideas and solutions to real problems from people who aren’t employed by you. You already see this in things like Google’s code jam. For corporate recruiters it means being able to think outside of ‘the post it and they will come’ mentality. They way we interface with candidates is important, the information and experiences we provide to them have to be distinctive. Since attention is the real commodity today, if your employment brand or personal brand isn’t distinguishable from the masses, you’ll get missed.
Do you have any insights or predictions regarding the future for recruiters and what we need to do to prepare?
Generally, I think you have to be good at the basics, and constantly polish listening, selling, and communications skills. If you’re a corporate recruiter, find a way to reach out beyond your HR/staffing partners. Other areas of the business often have the resources, knowledge and connections that will help you reach your goals, the key is they don’t know it unless you reach out to them. Lastly, get conversant with the new technology, as they say, all the kids are doing it.
What are your plans for the Sourcing Riff? Do you have any other work in progress?
I’ve kind of let it die on the vine here in the last six months. I’m going to continue blogging but I’m working on something different. I’m looking to do something that I can design more in terms of look and feel. Also I’d like to get some collaborative elements into it. Right now it’s just in the idea stage. I have a name and domain and am trying to decide on a platform.
Tell us about your involvement with the Minnesota Recruiters Network
Last summer Paul DeBettignies, Steven Rothberg and I met at Chipotle in Richfield initially to share ideas on getting local Twin Cities area recruiting bloggers together. I believe Paul had initiated the conversation the previous winter via an email to Steven, Derrick Moe from Selectmetrix, Toby Dayton from Jobdig, and myself. With schedules and such we didn’t meet in person until the summer. So over some enormous burritos, Steve, Paul and I started talking about expanding on the recruitment bloggers group to a larger group conference thing. This was stimulated in part by Steven having met John Sumser at a recruiting conference and John’s plans for a recruiting.com roadshow. Little bit of serendipity, little bit of networking prowess on Steven’s part, and after all was said and done a lot of work by Paul to get the first Un-Conference off the ground. Paul meanwhile put together the Ning site, and I would say has been the key driving force behind it. My role has been basically to reserve the space and order the food, and make sure the a/v stuff is working. A couple things are interesting about it though. The first is the speedy growth of the membership. Zero to near 200 and beyond in less than a year isn’t bad. There have been waiting lists for each of the 3 events we’ve held so far. A couple things have contributed to that, one is Paul’s hard work on the Minnesota Recruiters site has been huge. He won’t admit to it or take credit, but he’s the guy. Also, Paul and Steven’s extensive network have helped build membership quickly as well. The timing of social networks becoming popular amongst recruiters has been a nice boon as well.
What’s next for you?
Next for me is getting my new personal blog up and going. We’re working on some cool stuff at with clients that I would love to talk about, but probably shouldn’t at this point. The next year will be very interesting though.
Rick Deare
